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RG
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Pseudomonas




Joined: Jul 14, 2005
Posts: 49
Location: manila

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 12:21 am  Post subject: RG Reply with quote

does anyone have any idea on how you would know if the ball is a low RG ball or a high RG ball?
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blackcloud




Joined: Jul 04, 2005
Posts: 139
Location: las vegas, NV / gapan, nueva ecija

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:20 am  Post subject: RG Reply with quote

usually there is a spec sheet inside the box of the ball, there is also one displayed on the ball holder. if you can´t find it there, you can go to the website or to the ball review websites.
hammer explained the RG pretty well on their website. you can take a look there as well.
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Pseudomonas




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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 5:44 pm  Post subject: RG Reply with quote

they usually show a RG number but is that the RG minimum or RG maximum?
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Jorge




Joined: Aug 07, 2005
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Location: Philam Homes, QCMM

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 6:19 pm  Post subject: RG Reply with quote

Pseudo -

Isa lang ang RG value ng bola na naka specify. May isa pang figure na kasama yun, ang RG Differential. Yung combination ng RG and RG Differential ang magdedetermine kung mahaba o maikli ang skid factor ng bola. Of course, depende rin sa drilling pattern ng bola. Pakireview ang article ni Larry Mathews, ang URL ay nasa set ng discussions natin ng "Relaxed Swing".

The RG is the distance from the bowler´s axis that the entire mass of the ball appears to be concentrated. This is a technical figure coming from the branch of Physics called Mechanics. Medyo complicated ang computation. Siguro tanggapin na lang natin ang mga sinabi ng experts tungkol sa effect nito sa ball roll.



Jaws
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blackcloud




Joined: Jul 04, 2005
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Location: las vegas, NV / gapan, nueva ecija

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:37 am  Post subject: RG Reply with quote

so jorge,
how would they make a low RG ball low?
what would they need to do to get the RG down.( and this is before the ball is drilled.)
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Jorge




Joined: Aug 07, 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 1:15 pm  Post subject: RG Reply with quote

Black Cloud -

Based on the tech definition of RG, the only way to get the RG figure down is to concentrate the mass/weight of the ball closer to the axis as much as possible. This has to be done with a correct combination of core/weight block design and coverstock thickness. This way, the entire mass of the ball would appear to be rotating at a smaller distance from the bowler´s axis.

It is a good thing you did not ask me about the RG differential - medyo hindi ko rin maintindihan ang concept noon. My guess is that it has somthing to do with the assymetrical position of the weight block. Yun yatang RG differential ang reason why the ball flares when it stops skidding and bites the lane backend.

The problem here is that the track, axis location, and type of roll is different for each bowler. We are mostly semi-rollers, differing only in the distance of the apparent track (before the ball flares) from the thumb and fingers (high or low track). However, the more critical concept is the type of roll. We have the forward roll, moderate side roll, and maximum side roll depending on the angle which the axis makes with the original direction of the ball. For maximum side roll, the PAP marker almost faces the bowler.

My natural delivery is close to maximum side roll, which makes the ball skid very long. On today´s fast synthetic lanes, this is the worst roll to have. It was great 20 years ago when lanes were wood and mostly slow. Today, with such a roll, my ball skids all the way down to the head pin, not allowing it to bite and flare. Less hook, no carry. I therefore changed it, while not successfully consistent on every throw, to moderate side roll. Better scores !!!



Jaws
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bowlgeek




Joined: Dec 29, 2003
Posts: 15
Location: Manila

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:01 pm  Post subject: RG Reply with quote

Let me add my two cents to this, hope I don´t mess it up even further...

RG explained in simple terms is simply whether a ball is designed to be center heavy or cover heavy. Low RG means center heavy, high RG means cover heavy. Low RG will be easier to rev up, but this also means the energy of the ball will be used up earlier. This quick initial revving will usually mean earlier breakpoint mainly because you are creating more friction on the lane. Higher RG will mean the ball will rev up later. This means it will skid farther before hooking, and more energy is stored for the backend.

Regarding the numbers in the specs of a given ball, this is the lowest possible RG of the ball. This is your RG when you place the pin at your PAP. The RG diff. is the amount by which your RG will be raised if you were to move the pin 6 inches away from the PAP. The higher the diff., the more you can drill the ball to have the core wobble, therefore, more flare. This this higher friction caused by the flaring also contributes to earlier roll and stronger bankend.

Hope this doesn´t further complicate things.


Twas better to have bowled and lost than to have never bowled at all...
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Jorge




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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 4:57 am  Post subject: RG Reply with quote

Bowlgeek

Thanks for the lift. I was at a loss on the RG differential issue. At least I was right about it causing the flaring the ball.

Your Low RG/early roll and High RG/late roll explanation seems consistent with what I read on the net. Bowlers with high ball speed should use Low RG/High RG differential while those with lower ball speeds need High RG/Low differential. But we must not forget that the coverstock still contributes more to hook potential than the RG/RG differential factor. Also, drilling of holes for the thumb and fingers will tend to lower the RG of a ball, because you are removing mass from the outer periphery of the ball.

Finally, from personal experience, type of ball roll is also very significant. With maximum side roll, my Storm Eraser PBT (a high flare potential ball) will NOT flare at my ball speed. It will only flare and hook more with moderate side roll. I am not capable of throwing a forward roll. so I cannot safely comment on that.

You seem to know your bowling basics. I hope you can post more often at the forum so others may benefit from your knowledge. After all, that is what the forum is for. Cheers !


[ This message was edited by: Jorge on 2005-10-03 14:02 ]


Jaws
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blackcloud




Joined: Jul 04, 2005
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Location: las vegas, NV / gapan, nueva ecija

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 2:58 pm  Post subject: RG Reply with quote

why don´t we just go back to the days of the rubber ball?

[ This message was edited by: blackcloud on 2005-10-04 00:03 ]

[ This message was edited by: blackcloud on 2005-10-04 06:45 ]
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Jorge




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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 2:32 am  Post subject: RG Reply with quote

Black Cloud -

I would gladly go back to rubber balls. Medyo magulo na pumili ng bola ngayon. There are various types and tackiness of coverstocks, an infinite number of core/weight block designs, and an equal number of ways to drill a ball. Worse yet, reactive and particle balls have to be cleaned (extra expense on consumables, PHP 350.00 or more per bottle) and revived if too oil soaked (around PHP 800.00 per treatment) every so many games.

I still have a Brunswick LT-51 (Tommy Hudson). It is soft polyester and hooks reasonably on most medium lanes on a trackshot (second arrow straight up). If I were to go back to rubber, I would look for a Brunswick Johnny Petraglia LT-48, a Roto Grip RC5, or an Ebonite Earl Anthony Magnum 10. All three balls are soft rubber and should do well even today. I once owned the latter two. The RC5 became oblong in storage and the Magnum 10 is still with a friend.

The LT-48 is an interesting ball. The coverstock was designed to absorb oil, and then spit it out overnight when the ball is put in storage. I never got to find one nor use one. It was Coach Angelo´s favorite ball in the late 70´s and early 80´s.

This may sound too out of this world to you younger guys, but bowling was much simpler back then. No flaring balls. Just top weight/side weight/ finger weight aside from coverstock to bother about. No maintenance except when the damned ball return mechanism scrapes, gouges or slashes your ball. I would be happy if bowling could be made as simple today as it was back then.

Also, if the topic sounds old, it is because I also am. Cheers !



[ This message was edited by: Jorge on 2005-10-04 11:35 ]

[ This message was edited by: Jorge on 2005-10-04 11:40 ]


Jaws
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blackcloud




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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 3:35 pm  Post subject: RG Reply with quote

there are some rubber balls that i saw on ebay one of them was the LT 48. but if you can get ESPN classic there, there will be some replays of the old ABC telecasts from the 70´s. wouldn´t mind taping it.
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Jorge




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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:10 am  Post subject: RG Reply with quote

Black Cloud -

I will check out the EBay ads. However, I forgot to say that there was another kind of LT-48. It was the earlier version of the LT-51, also a Tommy Hudson signature ball, and was soft polyester. As for the videos, I´ll just send you a PM.



[ This message was edited by: Jorge on 2005-10-05 13:18 ]


Jaws
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dlasemperor




Joined: Jul 17, 2005
Posts: 6


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 2:51 am  Post subject: RG Reply with quote

just an observation:
to hell with those rg`s and what have you, todays bowling is lane condition dependent. you want to score? just be friendly with the lane mechanic and/or the center manager. specify to them your choice of pattern and viola! you can break all scoring records. Bowling is such an unfair sport that is why ioc won´t accept it in their calendar.
how i wish that pbc averages be scrapped altogether and start a new realistic one. how i wish that oil patterns be fair for every type of bowlers from stroker to cranker, lefties or righties. spinners or "hookers" and that all tournaments be held accdg to categories and not by handicapping.
Lastly, pag wednesday ang playdium pang kaliwa!!! bakit kaya?
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Angelo




Joined: Aug 07, 2003
Posts: 303
Location: Quezon City

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:23 am  Post subject: RG Reply with quote

dlasemperor,

well competition is really about lane condition and how you tackle them, rg´s, cg´s, mass bias... are the most important in drilling and if you know how to use this thing...your scores might inmprove but leave it to the pros, it might confuse some bowlers...you know what i mean.....
well regarding our wednesday lane conditions....i dont agree that it is for left handers...well we always do our house oiling which is fair for all types of shots but if there is a special request from the tournament director of a league, we do adjust the pattern to their desired lane condition....and it happens that the wednesday league TD is a lefty and scoring really high (in fairness, he is good) probably you are judging that the lanes are for lefty....but hey look around...got so many high games mostly from righties too... so its just a matter of how to tackle the lanes and learn to read the lanes faster.....there is also no Plaakasan system in Playdium, we see to it that lanes are fair for all types of players....and for your info....i really hate lanes that favor lefties...its just not fair diba... ... if you want a tip on how to score in playidum..pm me and i will help you ...cheers my friend


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blackcloud




Joined: Jul 04, 2005
Posts: 139
Location: las vegas, NV / gapan, nueva ecija

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:01 pm  Post subject: RG Reply with quote

hate to tell you this but the righties outnumber the lefties almost 10 to 1. this has been an ongoing issue over here in the states. it´s not our fault your side wears out faster than the left. we would´ve had the same problem if the roles were reversed. if you can´t adjust accordingly, then why are you even bowling competitively?

[ This message was edited by: blackcloud on 2005-10-15 21:02 ]
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