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SLOW OR FAST?
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Angelo




Joined: Aug 07, 2003
Posts: 303
Location: Quezon City

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:49 am  Post subject: SLOW OR FAST? Reply with quote

Many bowlers asked how fast or slow should we really throw our bowling balls,?

for me ball speed plays an important role in our game, ball speed should match how you rev up the ball, the lane, and the ball you are using....

here are some pointers that you can use in your game...

1. if you leave a 5 pin, 8-10 for right hand and 7 - 9 for left hand - - it is a sign that you must lower your ball speed or change your ball to a stronger one so it can create more impact and less deflection but take note that if your ball rolls out - you must change to a weaker ball.  weaker ball will give stronger impact when lanes are drier.

2.  in getting 10 pin, most pro increase their ball speed especially on the right side sparing for right hand.

3.  in getting double wood (2-8   3-9) i usually decrease my ball speed and rev up the ball more than usual to carry the back pin(we sometimes call it biyenan).

4.  one of the adjustments in leaving solid 10 pin or weak 10 pin is ball speed, try lowering it or increase it, you can see that there is an effect because the angle will change, if you know how to observe how your ball roll down the lane, you can decide easily which move you will make.  To learn this, experiment when you practice and see the effects of changing ball speeds.

5.  for further questions or comments, post it here mate!!!!  happy bowling!!!


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dabesbowlerindapilipins




Joined: Nov 18, 2004
Posts: 104


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 1:16 pm  Post subject: Re: SLOW OR FAST? Reply with quote

i throw the ball hard... and even harder for spares.  somebody clocked my speed at the pba open.  averaged 1.9 sec for a small hook.  to my best knowledge, my norm would be 2.2 sec.  if you ask me, it's all about control and consistency.  if you can throw it the same everytime, it would be easier to read the lanes.

OT:  
1) flat ball (8-10 for rh, 7-9 for left, 5 pin) means no hands... too much less is more concept applied hehehehhe!

2) rocket ships for single pin leaves.
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Jorge




Joined: Aug 07, 2005
Posts: 70
Location: Philam Homes, QCMM

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 1:25 pm  Post subject: Re: SLOW OR FAST? Reply with quote

Dabes,

I am posting my comments to your last post here para di off topic.

I appreciate the elaboration about ball speed/rev matching/ball choice analysis.  Every one has his natural cadence, swing height, and ability to change speeds.  I agree that bowling is a game of consistency.  The more consistent you are, the easier to strike repeatedly and read lanes.  You are fortunate to have all the training in the past to achieve this.  For lesser mortals like myself, we try to make the best of what we have.

I speak from experience that I can marginally change speeds up or down by cadence/backswing alteration.  It is not ideal, but it works for me most of the time to help keep scores decent.  I would like to have a ball for every condition that I will encounter on the lanes but I do not want to spend for more balls.  I think it is more challenging to adapt to the conditions with just two or three balls.  If I had to use just one ball, I could live with the Storm Eraser PBT.  Unless the lanes are extremely slow, I can still get a 10 pin spare with it.  I was thinking of getting a non-flaring/non reactive urethane for slow lanes because it is cheap but my weight range is out of stock.  There is a brand new old soft polyester ball available (Roto Grip RH, cheap at 2K) and I am thinking about it.

Of course, to be a class O player is more of a dream for me at my age.  To get to that stage, your post on speed change is truly applicable.  I like to bowl because it is fun.  When it gets to be too serious, it is no longer fun.  Kaya - let us bowl till we enjoy it !!!!

Have a nice day!!!


Jaws
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dabesbowlerindapilipins




Joined: Nov 18, 2004
Posts: 104


Status: Offline
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:20 pm  Post subject: Re: SLOW OR FAST? Reply with quote

OT

tito jorge,

nowadays, it is quite easy to become an open classs bowler. with the technology and information available now,  one just has to tap these resources to improve one's game.  i recommend that you take formal lessons or read a bowling instructional book.  if you can order books authored by john jowdy or fred borden, that would be great.  ritger's encyclopedia of strikes, spares and mental game would be also fine.

what does it take to have a 200 ave? basically, it's just a double and a couple of spares in every game.  just have the patience to bowl a clean game every time and i am sure you will be able to be an open class player.

bowling is fun.  competing in tournaments is also fun.  challenging coach angelo for ice cream is fun too.  the definition of fun is relative.  i am sure that if you get to know the ins and outs of bowling, it will be fun.  you are that smart for bowling.  quoting one of the former rp team player dr ruben dela cruz "kung ang medisina naintindihan ko, yang bowling pa!" (something like that) btw, he started late. doctor na sya when he took up bowling.
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Cnd




Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 50
Location: Quezon City

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 11:41 pm  Post subject: Re: SLOW OR FAST? Reply with quote

Yap...I agree with you guys...with the technology and resources around, its just a click on your fingers.
I agree with Dabes, take formal lessons, read instructional books that will trigger your skills automatically and subconsciously..

My coach once told me that "Bowling is a mental game." That i have to make this as a mantra. Your own skill level will astonish you once you truly focus on the mental side of the game and decide to get really good at it...Amen. ," )


Never look up to or at competition. The legend, the star, the champion - is YOU, no different.
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gEnOs@iD




Joined: Jan 16, 2006
Posts: 8
Location: Marikina City

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:55 pm  Post subject: Re: SLOW OR FAST? Reply with quote

in my case, i'm still studying the "optimum ball speed" principle...
i do follow some of the guidelines posted by Sir Angelo...
and yes, i still do throw that wicked 32 kph on my spares, especially the 10-pin...
bakit? wala akong spare ball...pro-active yung pang spare ko...and i don't plan of buying a spare ball...yet...

I do believe that understanding the effects of various ball speeds on different lane conditions would be the key on determining the right ball speed for yourself. Yun bang analogy na hindi ko babagalan ang ball speed ko sa slow lane, at hindi ko ibabato ng 32 kph yung bola sa lane na ginamitan ng "cooking oil". I really like throwing fast, so I always get the opportunity to throw fast on slow lanes with strong back-ends. But most of the time I throw that ball 7 kph slower than my usual to achieve the "optimum ball speed".

i think ang principle ng "optimum ball speed" is to maximize the capability of the ball itself (not really the bowler). sabi nga ni dabest, technology is already available to help us in our game. pero sayang yung bola if we can't maximize its potential. kung masyadong mabilis, bawasan. kung masyadong mabagal, dagdagan. sa tingin ko ito yung gustong palabasin ng principle na ito. hindi lang ako sure. itatanong ko ulit kay purvis...

bigla ko tuloy naalala, nabanggit ng tatay ko...
alam nyo yung strike na "bulaklak"? he said that when you accidentally get a strike like this, it means that you have the right ball speed for tha specific lane condition. wala akong scientific proof dito. basta i just had faith with my dad para paniwalaan ito na para bang naniniwala tayong may planetang Pluto somewhere in the Solar System. if anyone can prove of disprove this with scientific facts, i wll definitely appreciate it....


"Conquer the lanes. Do not let the lanes conquer you. For best results, conquer the lane with your ball." --> Words of the gEnOs@iD
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gEnOs@iD




Joined: Jan 16, 2006
Posts: 8
Location: Marikina City

Status: Offline
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:52 pm  Post subject: Re: SLOW OR FAST? Reply with quote

ah oo nga pala...
the "optimum ball speed" i'm talking about? 17-18 mph (if i remembered it correctly...)

dagdag inpormasyon pa...
(some of these are just my theories though, but definitely not the next line, it's a fact)
what really matters is the speed of the ball when entering the pocket, which is around 12-13 mph...
if we throw a ball with a speed of 17-18 mph at a normal lane condition (di ko alam yung specs, basta not too slow, not too fast), we achieve 12-13 mph at pocket. Therefore, kung dry ang lane, ang tendency ng bola is to slow down sooner. bakit? friction! so we do two things: either 1) kumuha ng "less reactive" na bola, or kung wala ka ng ganung bola, 2) bilisan ang ball speed, to compensate. Kung fast lane, less friction, hindi agad babagal yung bola. So, either we get a strong ball or bagalan ang ball speed. I really hope my theory is correct. May sense naman di ba?

ah may isa pang factor!
May isa pang bowling theorem: "The lift should be greater than the push."
Ok lang mabilis ang bola, basta ba malakas din ang spin na kaya mo ilagay sa bola.
So if dabest can make a ball go 1.8 seconds towards the head pin, which is 60 feet from the foul line, and the ball still hooks a lot, siguro napaparev nya ang bola ng mga 21-24 revs...
Kung mahina ang "pitik" mo sa bola (gaya ko...), kelangan less ball speed.

that's all! sa tingin ko, nowadays, bonus na lang if you learn how to vary ball speeds and still have the consistency. Skill kasi ito eh. Priceless...


"Conquer the lanes. Do not let the lanes conquer you. For best results, conquer the lane with your ball." --> Words of the gEnOs@iD
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dabesbowlerindapilipins




Joined: Nov 18, 2004
Posts: 104


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:16 pm  Post subject: Re: SLOW OR FAST? Reply with quote

re: principle of optimum ball speed, ikaw lang nag-ibento nun.  in my 23 yrs of bowling, sa yo ko lang narinig yun.  baka ang ibig mong sabihin ay "preferred" and not optimum.  some ppl do not have the strength to throw it (17 to 18mph) that hard. if we're talking about making strikes, it's the bowler not the ball.  just have sufficient rotation and an optimum entry angle (around 6 degrees), your carry would be great.

17 to 19mph is usually considered average ball speed.  below 17mph is slow. above 19 is fast.  the definition of optimum is the best.  there is no such thing as best ball speed.

re: cooking oil, saan ka naman makakalaro na yun ang ginamit?

re: bulaklak na strike and proving/disproving it,  you said you accepted it as faith but ok lang if someone can give scientific proof.  religion and science are two things that are hard to mix.  if you accept it as gospel, so be it.   there's no need for other ppl to prove/disprove that.  also, the head-on strike isn't repeatable, therefore it is hard for one to explain the phenomenon.
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gEnOs@iD




Joined: Jan 16, 2006
Posts: 8
Location: Marikina City

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:42 pm  Post subject: Re: SLOW OR FAST? Reply with quote

tnx for your comment on "bulaklak strike"...i guess there is no scientific proof after all...

re: "cooking oil" --> ever heard of metaphors? di ko tuloy alam kung 23 years ka na talaga sa bowling o hindi mo pa narinig itong metaphor na ito when refering to fast lanes...

re: "optimum ball speed" --> yeah, maybe i used such a strong word, OPTIMUM. "preferred"? pwede na...


"Conquer the lanes. Do not let the lanes conquer you. For best results, conquer the lane with your ball." --> Words of the gEnOs@iD
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dabesbowlerindapilipins




Joined: Nov 18, 2004
Posts: 104


Status: Offline
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 3:43 pm  Post subject: Re: SLOW OR FAST? Reply with quote

OT

metaphors are comparisons of two different objects. cooking oil and the lane conditioner are both "oils".

there is an urban legend that some proprietors in the old days use cooking oil.  it leaves daw a sticky feeling sa kamay.  i am not that old to know if it's really true or not. considering the equipment today, it is possible that the balls might hook. =)

sorry, my friends and i dont use that expression "playing on cooking oil".  here are some expressions we used in reference to lanes that dont allow the ball to hook (i'm assuming this is your definition of fast lanes):

1) lane is flooded
2) no back-ends
3) there's an out-of-bounds (OB) in that area
4) somebody forgot to strip again
5) cho-cho oiled the lanes hehehehehehe
6) parang blue dot/black diamond yung gamit ko
7) ayan... fade na naman....
Cool good three...
9) pro pattern eh...pro langis hehehehee
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Angelo




Joined: Aug 07, 2003
Posts: 303
Location: Quezon City

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 9:09 am  Post subject: Re: SLOW OR FAST? Reply with quote

according to former RP Coach Ollie Ongtawco

10.  Naging KudRADo ang bola.


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Jorge




Joined: Aug 07, 2005
Posts: 70
Location: Philam Homes, QCMM

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 11:40 am  Post subject: Re: SLOW OR FAST? Reply with quote

Guys,

Medyo OFF TOPIC ITO,  but I once said the same thing.  Some bowling centers use cooking oil, I think.  You will only notice what I am going to say if you use a spare ball often enough.

When I use my Maxim Ebonite in Playdium, it comes back to the ball rack with oil on its track (being a non flaring ball) and only on its track.  This is very visible and needs to be wiped off the next time the ball is used, or the oil goes on my hands, shirt, etc.  On a polished reactive ball, you normally do not notice the oil.  On a sanded ball, the oil is seen on several tracks, due to to the flaring action.

When I use my Maxim Ebonite elsewhere (SMN, SMM, EGC, all AMF centers, pardon the codes at baka mademanda pa ako) it comes back with oil smeared all over it, no distinct oil band on the track.  Ang lagkit-lagkit ng lintik na langis na yun.  Kahit punasan mo ang bola mo nang mabuti, malagkit pa rin.

Can anyone tell me what kind of oil that is ?  Baka nga cooking oil yun.  Coach Angelo says it is some cheap conditioner from Cebu. Anyone else has any guesses ?


Jaws
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dabesbowlerindapilipins




Joined: Nov 18, 2004
Posts: 104


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:13 pm  Post subject: Re: SLOW OR FAST? Reply with quote

korean lane conditioner
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journe300




Joined: Jan 02, 2006
Posts: 25


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:07 am  Post subject: Re: SLOW OR FAST? Reply with quote

Slow or fast in my humble opinion a player should hopefully know how to throw both so that he would have easier time of adjusting  Mad
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fets




Joined: Nov 08, 2005
Posts: 13


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:57 pm  Post subject: Re: SLOW OR FAST? Reply with quote

[quote="Angelo";p="1430"]Many bowlers asked how fast or slow should we really throw our bowling balls,?

for me ball speed plays an important role in our game, ball speed should match how you rev up the ball, the lane, and the ball you are using....

here are some pointers that you can use in your game...

1. if you leave a 5 pin, 8-10 for right hand and 7 - 9 for left hand - - it is a sign that you must lower your ball speed or change your ball to a stronger one so it can create more impact and less deflection but take note that if your ball rolls out - you must change to a weaker ball.  weaker ball will give stronger impact when lanes are drier.

quote]

Angelo,

can you explain what are the weaker from the stronger balls? pearl, solid, plastic? la kasi akong alam sa bola

also what are the hardest hitting balls out there nowadays? is it applicable to all types of lane conditions? kindly enlighten an ignorant soul like me  Smile
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